Steelguitar.fr - Le forum dédié à la Pedal Steel

Bienvenue sur steelguitar.fr Pour toute inscription nous acceptons les musiciens uniquement sous leurs VRAIS NOMS ET PRÉNOMS (par exemple "Stéphane Lefebvre"). Tout pseudonyme sera immédiatement rejeté. Merci
Steelguitar.fr - Le forum dédié à la Pedal Steel

Pedal steel, matériel, événements, musique, occasions . Le 1 er Forum Français regroupant les Joueurs de Pedal Steel, Lap steel et Résonateurs.

STEELGUITAR.FR
Retrouvez de nombreuses infos à propos de la Pedal Steel sur nos sites ressources: ----- http://www.pedalsteel.fr ----- http://www.pedalsteelguitar.fr -----
Prochains rendez vous importants: -------->>>
PROCHAINES RENCONTRES DE CHARLIEU (42) printemps 2017 - renseignements Éric Want ----

How many steelplayers can read notes?

Partagez
avatar
Mummenhoff Marc
sage

Messages : 101
Date d'inscription : 17/08/2009
Age : 58
Localisation : Belgium

How many steelplayers can read notes?

Message  Mummenhoff Marc le Ven 12 Aoû - 8:16

I wonder how many steelplayers can read notes and use this knowledge on the pedalsteel?
I can tell you my personal experience:
I am not a note reader!
At first i play mainly E9 and i figured out on my own way what the pedals are doing.
E9 tuning was not a big problem for me, i knew the positions of all the chords and pedals.
I am also a guitarplayer, maybe that helps.
A little help from a E9 card from Mel Bay did the rest and ofcourse practice.
Does that mean that i can read notes???
NO WAY! I just know the positions and the names of the chords and pedalactions and adapted them on the steel.
Why a certain chord named that way - i have no clue - i just know it
I a later stadia i begun to play my second neck C6 tuning
I knew that all the strange chords are taken with this neck.
I wanna learn jazz anyway or anyhow.
I study several books from Herby wallace and began to practice.
At a certain point in the book he wrote that the more chords you can memorize the better player you become.
I wonder? does that mean Herby is not a note reader?
So i did that - i memorize many chords and i knew how to take them and wich pedals to push.
At this point now i can easly play with other jazz musicians
And ofcourse i always can improvise.
Most of the time when i improvise i don't know what i am doing on the steel - it comes anyway and it sounds right for me.
Does That Mean that i can read music???
NO WAY!
I just can improvise and know the positions of the chords - wich pedals and so on.
I see sometimes on forums technical informations of chords and so on WOW!!! too theoretical for me
I'll just memorize the chords and improvise- thats my way.
I've played in the past with lots of conservatorim guys and it was not a problem for me to follow them

BTW: i never had lessons from other steelplayers.
The marked is full of lesson materials - you tube - cources --- and so on
It seems that every steelplayer wants to make study material.

What about you guys??
Are you - just like me - earplayers? and memorizing stuff?
avatar
Mat Davallet
Admin

Messages : 502
Date d'inscription : 17/07/2009
Age : 44
Localisation : Brem sur mer (85)

Re: How many steelplayers can read notes?

Message  Mat Davallet le Ven 12 Aoû - 9:03

As Jeff Newman said: "We won't learn the chords by notes. The guitar already knows the notes, and we don't have to know them. The notes take care of themself. Many times the music theory and the notes complicate things so badly that player throw up their hands in frustrations. It is not necessary to know the notes if you know where the chord is and how to use it"
That's an intresting turn of mind. In my opininion, there's different positions for learning and practicing music. Some are really easy in instinctive practice, others prefers studiying deeply by knowing all the music theory.. For me if you want to go as far as possible you have to know different faces of the music theory.

Mat


_________________
Schild SD10 4+5 /Nash 400/lemay mod/ Emminence neo speaker/ Brad Sarno "tonic preamp"/Strymon bluesky/Telonics volume/Tonealigner pickup / http://www.pedalsteel.fr
avatar
jean marie stainier
sage

Messages : 583
Date d'inscription : 28/04/2011
Age : 67
Localisation : Bruxelles

Re: How many steelplayers can read notes?

Message  jean marie stainier le Ven 12 Aoû - 21:59

I fully agree with Jeff Newman's statement. If you can read a staff, that can help, if you wanna go far inthe study of
psg. But reading a staff is totally (or nearby) useless if you want to play. You have to watch your left hand quite
closely, giving no time to read a staff note by note. You just have time to give a quick glance to the grid (Nashville numbers system). That's the way I work.
I find the knowledge of harmony more important than a reader's proficiency, i.e. the way chords are following eachother.
I never took lessons in any music academy, except Jeffran College 33 yaers ago when I was a confirmed beginner.
For me, the study of psg must follow three steps :
1.after being able to use the instrument, you start with tablatures.
2.as soon as possible switch to ear training (recognizing chords by ear, not the chord by its name but by its number), try to duplicate what you hear instead of looking for a tab. Then, start to improvise around the chord you spoteed.
3. Study harmony and try to identify more sophisticated chords (°,13,sus 4...)and begin to improvise around these chords. You are ready now to go to jazz or other types of music.
In short, try to get rid of the tabs as soon as possible. Jeff Newman forced the students to memorize the numbers in order to be able to improvise when necessary.
J-M study
avatar
Fred Mabrut
Chef de l'apéro

Messages : 957
Date d'inscription : 17/07/2009
Age : 55
Localisation : Puy de Dôme

Re: How many steelplayers can read notes?

Message  Fred Mabrut le Sam 13 Aoû - 8:06

I've never been able to tell one note from another on a staff. I've always learned to play an instrument by ear only . Tabs remain useful when one cannot fathom what is happening in one given lick nevertheless.

avatar
Mummenhoff Marc
sage

Messages : 101
Date d'inscription : 17/08/2009
Age : 58
Localisation : Belgium

Tabs

Message  Mummenhoff Marc le Dim 14 Aoû - 8:54

I'll find tabs very useful
Especially the ones with tricks and things in it that you never be able to find.
The tabs from the masters Buddy Emmons and Herby Wallace are to me very useful
It gives me very good ideas and they progress my study.
Also some tabs of a whole instrumental song are very good. (you always learn from it)
Some movements in certain songs i'd never come up with - so thank you TAB to explain it
But then again Tabs is no reading of notes ofcource - to start off with the beginning of the discussion LOL
avatar
CLEMENT CANTIN
sage

Messages : 507
Date d'inscription : 18/07/2009
Age : 64
Localisation : CHARTRES 28000

Re: How many steelplayers can read notes?

Message  CLEMENT CANTIN le Mer 17 Aoû - 16:12

Hi Marc,
It's pretty difficult ton answer you about the number of non reading staff steelers. I guess nobody knows, as nobody knows about banjo, guitar or piano players.
solfège is not music ; it's a tool very complete for writting, reading, forwarding and protecting music, but not music itself. More, it is not the only tool available in our century, we have tablature, recording, logiciels to memorise.


Even you have to play with conservatory players, your way is the good one. Listening, catching the key, the chords, even writing your own tablature, and it works!

It seems you have an harmonic ear, and you sure can play anything by ear, however I think it is important to know and understand what we do and why we dot it.
We sure don't need to know all the solfège rules, but understanding harmony bases are usefull and confortable. I agree with Jean Marie in importance of knowing the chords as degrees of a key and the relation between us ; just knowing why a C6 sounds like a A minor, for instance opens a large door, and you can explore diffently the fretboard. The vocabulary of harmony and the rules of chords building are so simple..why the way of teaching them is not?
I play a lot by ear as well, but my ears needs to undersatnd what it ask to my steel to play
Please excuse the mistakes, I learnt English by ear too!!
Clement




avatar
Ruth Iseli
Membre Honoraire

Messages : 69
Date d'inscription : 04/10/2011
Age : 104
Localisation : Bàle / Suisse

Re: How many steelplayers can read notes?

Message  Ruth Iseli le Jeu 3 Nov - 23:36

Very interesting to read.
I'm new on steel but played piano since I was a child.
Learning the notes was the first I had to do. I learned everything on piano using notes, until I wanted to accompany singers - then I had to learn to play after chords . That was a huge difference and many piano player are caught in the notes, as I was.
I sang many years in choirs, of course using notes....
When I found myself a little melody, I could write it down. Ok, today you can sing it and record it but that's new technologiy. What would Bach and Mozart had done without notes?

Now, on steel, I never ever used a note. LEarned from vids, from explanationsfrom pother players, very few using tabs
But knowing the notes helps to communicate with other players, you can name the things, you can write a information down.

The best steel player I know personally hates notes, he doesn't know anything but plays soooo well.
I don't think we have to know them but it's not a hindring

NO-note-readers: Do you use the NNS when communicating with others (when thers's no instrument arouund)?
avatar
CLEMENT CANTIN
sage

Messages : 507
Date d'inscription : 18/07/2009
Age : 64
Localisation : CHARTRES 28000

Re: How many steelplayers can read notes?

Message  CLEMENT CANTIN le Ven 4 Nov - 8:23

Hi Ruth,
Perhaps, I did not explain my opinion clearly about the notes and academic learning.It has always been a good method through centuries. I just wanted to say music is not just that, and it is not so obvious for a lot of music teachers who always want to teach a biginner this way. The way of learning is quite different some one person to an other one. With some it works, with some it doesn't, and is is preferable to introduce theories when the questions and needing come.Learning theories is never too late, I still do.
Anyway, you are right, without notes, how to write, save and forward Mozart music.
Clement
avatar
jean marie stainier
sage

Messages : 583
Date d'inscription : 28/04/2011
Age : 67
Localisation : Bruxelles

Re: How many steelplayers can read notes?

Message  jean marie stainier le Ven 4 Nov - 13:07

Howdy Ruth !
As I've mentionned before, learning to read notes has never been of any use for me playing the psg.
I can read notes but slowly in order to decrypt some hard stuff for the lead guitar.
For the psg, I've never used any staff and notes, just tabs from time to time and ear all the time.
But I find that harmony is absolutely necessary, i.e. which chord is played, the tone (root) of the song...
A very good exercice suggested by J D Maness is to write down the chords while listening to a song.
He doesn't mean to give the actual name of the chord but its relative position using the Nashville number system.
If you can, do that while listening, you'll finally be able to do it while playing.
J-M study

Contenu sponsorisé

Re: How many steelplayers can read notes?

Message  Contenu sponsorisé


    La date/heure actuelle est Sam 19 Aoû - 2:40