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Horizontal kneelever B

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Mummenhoff Marc
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Horizontal kneelever B

Message  Mummenhoff Marc le Ven 20 Sep - 8:00

Hi guys,
I'm thinkin' of putting a horizontal lever b to Bb on my emmons.
I have now a standard D10 (8 pedals - 4 kneelevers)
Are you guys happy with that lever?
Do you used it often?
Is it easy to use? - comfortly?
I wonder why it becomes standard on the most steelguitars?
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jean marie stainier
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Re: Horizontal kneelever B

Message  jean marie stainier le Dim 22 Sep - 20:49

No idea, Marc
I've always been working with a 8/4 copedent and don't see till now the need for a vertical kneelever (B--Bb)
J-M
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Philippe Schpilka
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Re: Horizontal kneelever B

Message  Philippe Schpilka le Lun 23 Sep - 6:25

You should ask it to Jan Oelbrandt... He uses a B to Bb, but with a fourth pedal on his S10...

I have it on a vertical kneelever but never use it...
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Bernard Glorian
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Re: Horizontal kneelever B

Message  Bernard Glorian le Lun 23 Sep - 8:03

same comment as Philippe . I have also an horizontal one (KL) but till today, I used it only on 1 SONG.
but could be useful on jazz chords on E9.

main problem : not easy to get your knee up and your foot down on pedal scratch 

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tim mercer
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Never use it!

Message  tim mercer le Lun 23 Sep - 11:04

Jeff Newman gives explanations on his DVDs about the use of the vertical knee lever, but he certainly does not waste much time talking about it. There are plenty of other choices. And he says this about other knee levers.

Look at this video of Tim Hamilton playing Fräulein (at 0.41 or 42 and elsewhere) and you will see him use the VKL:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suY-fdbm1BI

Personally, I never use it and never tune it; just as Al Brisco once said to me about the 4th pedal: If I use it once in an evening, that's maybe the maximum!

By the way, this knee lever was not designed to be used with a pedal. There are enough damned pedals but even more people persuaded that they have not got enough contortions. Look at the advantages "musically" and I do not think that you'll find many or any that are not available elsewhere with standard copedent.
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Philippe Schpilka
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Re: Horizontal kneelever B

Message  Philippe Schpilka le Lun 23 Sep - 11:24

This is the way Jan uses de B>Bb (on his right foot) :

Jan a écrit:avec les combinaisons notées, on peut jouer ces accords. Exemples en open position (sans bar) avec ton LKV engagé
- F#7 sur cordes 8-7-5-4
- F#9 sur les 8-7-6-5-4
- C#maj7 sur 8-6-5-4-3, A+LKL
- Amin sur 8-6-5-4-3, A+B
- F#m7b5 sur 7-6-5-4-3, A+B
- G#7 sur 8-7-6-5-4-3, A+RKR
- D#m sur 8-7-5-4, B+RKR
- D# sur 8-7-5-4, B+RKR+LKR

Mon LKL fait E->F, LKR fait F#->G, RKR fait D#->D et RKL fait E->D#
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Mat Davallet
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Re: Horizontal kneelever B

Message  Mat Davallet le Lun 23 Sep - 11:26

Hi marc
Vertical knee (B to Bb) can be usefull in many context. In most cases, the goal is to get a C in with A pedal engaged at the same time. This means that you can do exactly the same with half pedal A engaged. Some player create a light half stop feeling in giving longer course to the 5th string (by moving your rods from the body to the floor holes).This is not a requirement, but you can do it if you want. Nevertheless full use of this copedent is better with a knee, but you can already find 90% of the functionality only with your pedal A.
Mat


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Mummenhoff Marc
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Re: Horizontal kneelever B

Message  Mummenhoff Marc le Mar 24 Sep - 16:27

Hi Mat, i use sometimes a half pedal A.
It works fine for me. That's why i like some pressure in the pedals, to have the right feel.
It was what i think, most people do not use the pedal change B to Bb often.
I think it's not comfortly to use?
But it looks great and difficult so much pedals and kneelevers ofcource
I remember Jan Vissers told me that he once had an emmons with 8 pedals and 8 kneelevers. But he said it was not comfortly to use all the kneelevers.

Altough this lever looks interested, maybe someday i don't know.
I think it's just me, i feel the need for change :-)

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jean marie stainier
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Re: Horizontal kneelever B

Message  jean marie stainier le Mar 24 Sep - 21:16

I also use half pedal A. But to play a transition 4 to 4min from AB position, I generally go up one fret, same grip, with kneelever E.
This can be a good sustitute for those who have problems to reach the right note with half pedal.
J-M
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Jan Oelbrandt
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Re: Horizontal kneelever B

Message  Jan Oelbrandt le Jeu 26 Sep - 7:17

Waw Philippe, that you remembered about that pedal of mine!

tim mercer a écrit:
Look at this video of Tim Hamilton playing Fräulein (at 0.41 or 42 and elsewhere) and you will see him use the VKL:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suY-fdbm1BI
Practically all the places he engages the pedal is on a V chord. The lever resolves the V9sus4 to a V9.
For those wanting to try out:
there's a G9sus4 chord on strings 8-7-6-5 (notes: F - G - A - C)
So with string 5 half down: F - G - A - B.
He resolves easy to a C chord on pos3 with A+B.
Of course has to be noted: the note F is on the bottom. And: you can do it also without string 6, but the addition of the 9th note on a dom7 chord is pretty basic
tim mercer a écrit:
By the way, this knee lever was not designed to be used with a pedal.
That's the main reason I'm grabbing it with my right foot, I can do the combination of that move with all other options.

Jean marie stainier a écrit:But to play a transition 4 to 4min from AB position, I generally go up one fret, same grip, with kneelever E.
Yes JM I do that too. But... to do the bar move without audible transition (strings 4 - 6 - 8 )is hard. It is just more seamless to lower string 5 a half step.

That all said,
I think as long as it is do-able to grab the lever or pedal, useful things can be done with it. It depends on the player. More options = more possibilities. But at the same time, I think there is a TON of possibilities with 3x4 on the E9 neck. So my greatest respect to the (many) players choosing to disregard their LKV.
Good luck Marc, and keep us posted on what you decide.

-off topic-
Mat, the red MSA has me hooked on the C6 neck. My other one has not been out of its case since I got it.
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CLEMENT CANTIN
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Re: Horizontal kneelever B

Message  CLEMENT CANTIN le Ven 27 Sep - 6:11

Hi Marc,
I constated in practicing that an horizontal lever is very usufull. I have one one my Mullen. Anyway, I almost never use it because I play as well without it on my 4 lever MSA and it is not an habit for me to use it. Difficult to change ...

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